Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: T4AJackal on June 05, 2012, 10:23 pm
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Ok...here's the deal. A lot of people have reported pretty nasty side effects from this product. I have experienced the same thing...generally after multiple admins. Blinding headache, chills, uncontrollable shivering, fever, sweating...you name it. Some people who've had the same problems have speculated that it's cotton fever or that the product is otherwise contaminated, and believe me, I don't blame them because that's what it feels like but I don't believe that's the case. These are very common side effects associated with high doses of morphine. I have spoken at length with Hatter about it and he has confirmed this as well as claiming that is why he keeps the dosage low in the solution. In his words : "If you do a lot of Opana, it's going to make you sick."
Speaking for myself, I purchased this product thinking it would be an inexpensive substitute for H until I got more BTC exchanged. Not smart. I had a torrid love affair with OC's many years ago and have done my share of Dilaudid (which in prolonged use causes the same side effects) but Opana was new to me and I feel I should have researched a bit more before taking the plunge (ahem). I'm sure this stuff is great for pain management cases, but for getting high...you simply can't do enough to get a heavy nod without making yourself sick. As such, I will keep the remainder of my vial in my medicine cabinet in case I ever fall off my roof but I'd rather suffer the uneasiness of waiting for some other orders than to subject myself to another night of shivering and chattering like a goddamned idiot.
Please share your experience or thoughts on this product...
Regards,
T4AJ
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Not nodding on Opana?
That's a new one to me, since I nod on it fairly easy.
I'm not a daily opiate consumer though, yet.
:)
nomad bloodbath
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Yeah, I got the exact, same reactions to the opana. Does he mean that if you're trying to take it for pain management rather than recreation/to support a habit, the symptoms won't occur, because you're taking lower doses?
Now, I keep a low tolerance, simply because I can't afford to have a high one.
I remember shooting it a few times, once was my initial dose and the dose was quite small. I shot about... hm 25 units or so for my first shot, because you can never be too careful. I remember feeling a little shaky and crummy after the initial high of about 20 minutes, but it wasn't anything serious, and i chalked it up to me just feeling kinda bad that day.
I upped my subsequent dose to 50 units a few hours later and that's when the insane, intense shaking and teeth chattering started. Like bad enough that I had to put something between my teeth, shit was fucking nuts. MASSIVE headache. Twice more, both doses 50 units spread out on two different days, same deal. I didn't have any symptoms other than the intense shaking, chills and a headache. No fever, at least I don't think so. Deep breaths and relaxing my body seemed to help a lot, and the shaking fits seemed to last about twenty to thirty minutes.
What's funny is that after the intense shaking, I didn't really feel the high much afterward. There's an initial rush and it's pretty nice to feel, but it didn't seem to last. I personally would not try an IV preparation that I didn't make myself again. I hear it's a reaction to the extra ETOH added in the filtering and storing process
I urge hatter to reformulate this and find a different way to ensure that the shots stay clean with a different process, or different preservative or something. I'm not sure how, because it seems like he has used the best possible way. Although, based on all the other people I've heard from, this seems to be the opana and ONLY the opana, not the heroin.
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Hi,
This effects are from being "dope sick", I'll wager that when you are feeling crappy and you take another dose of Opana you will fell better, although it may not get you high like before. This is how quick you can get a tolerance to Opana and Duiladid or any strong opiate. Just think the more high you get the worse the comedown is going to be with opiates, this is why when they give opiates to people in the hospital they give them a script for oral IR opana for about a week after constant IV doses as anyone would get sick as they are coming off the opiate.
You may not feel as sick off H because it last a bit longer or you do another dose and go down slower.
I use the solution myself and don't get sick at all but I'm also in CP and need to take a dose every 4-5 hrs or I will get very sick.
If you ask any pain mgt Dr about this they will tell you the same thing. It's not the ETOH as there is probably .5% of it in the solution and is a common solvent for IV benzo preps, which people don't get sick from and IV vallium contains 40% ETOH.
So if you are using the IV opana be careful and aware that you will get sick if you don't take yourself down slow, if you are feeling sick after taking a big dose you could take 1/4 of the dose and feel better although you won't get high.
That's opiates for you.
Thanks
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As far as dopesick goes I can say after a night of shooting dillies all night the next day after waking up and feeling sick I can inject as little as 2mg of Dilaudid and it feel like 8mg, simply by reintroducing the chemical back to my system.
This is just an observation, may or may not have anything to do with the topic of this thread.
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As far as dopesick goes I can say after a night of shooting dillies all night the next day after waking up and feeling sick I can inject as little as 2mg of Dilaudid and it feel like 8mg, simply by reintroducing the chemical back to my system.
This is just an observation, may or may not have anything to do with the topic of this thread.
That's exactly right! I've done Ibogaine 2x and the next time I use just 1mg does me like 10mg. As I have a tolerance where I use 10mg/ml at a time and sometimes 2-3x at a time if my pain is really bad and I don't get high. If I want to get high then I would probably have to use 50mg+ when I use I just feel normal and you can't even tell I've just shot up 10mg of Opana.
But if I don't get my next dose 3 hours later I'm super sick!
So that is what Opiate Dependent Patient means on my medical chart.
This is why I know about this, 1st hand knowledge. It's no fun to have chronic pain and to be opiate dependent.
Stay safe!
Thanks
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Hatter, you are seriously one classy person. Other vendors would have flown off the handle and gotten all upset and abusive
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When i was prescribed the old formulation ers and i was also prescribed the ir 10's i would IV the ir'sd without a problem amazing rush amazing nod just great prob my fav er drug but extracting the opana from the ers whether it was just letting them soak out into a solution because of the gel or the extraction process of filltering with 91% iso the only time i got sick and i mean ive had cotton fever and this is not cotton fever it is an uncontrolable shivering freezing puking mess that is basically like you are going to die and the only thing that took it away was the IR IV and a couple hours of feeling like shit with blinding headaches.... Its the fillers in the er pills that do this.....the new formulatiom basically the only way to extract the opana is to let them soak in a solution so the mechanism releases the medicine... tjhere are other ways with scertain precursors and such but it shouldnt be happening to properly filtered solutions.... if you just let pills sit in water over night than take that and put it through a filter its not going to do a damn thing except make it more soluble and viscous..... I would wish death on an enemy before that uncotrollable shiver/shaking coldness puking headache of a slow death almost NO gooooooood, but ill take all the opana irs you can give me!
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When i was prescribed the old formulation ers and i was also prescribed the ir 10's i would IV the ir'sd without a problem amazing rush amazing nod just great prob my fav er drug but extracting the opana from the ers whether it was just letting them soak out into a solution because of the gel or the extraction process of filltering with 91% iso the only time i got sick and i mean ive had cotton fever and this is not cotton fever it is an uncontrolable shivering freezing puking mess that is basically like you are going to die and the only thing that took it away was the IR IV and a couple hours of feeling like shit with blinding headaches.... Its the fillers in the er pills that do this.....the new formulatiom basically the only way to extract the opana is to let them soak in a solution so the mechanism releases the medicine... tjhere are other ways with scertain precursors and such but it shouldnt be happening to properly filtered solutions.... if you just let pills sit in water over night than take that and put it through a filter its not going to do a damn thing except make it more soluble and viscous..... I would wish death on an enemy before that uncotrollable shiver/shaking coldness puking headache of a slow death almost NO gooooooood, but ill take all the opana irs you can give me!
Hi,
It sounds like you are getting sick from your ER extract because of the way you filter, I use a .22 micron filter and also my TEK doesn't need any water at all and only uses DRY etoh. The result is a sterile powder, crystallized oxymorphone. Then to make the IV solution I use that sterile 99% oxymorphone powder, weigh the correct dose and use bacterosatic water to dilute.
People are not getting sick from any contaminates from the binders as there are none in this. The sick is from opiate dependence or more commonly known as "physical addiction" and you are coming down. That is how strong opana is, it is not a drug to mess with unless you are willing to deal with the resulting side effects.
Thanks!
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@Hatter,
I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate you posting here. Like greenwood mentioned, I think it shows a degree of character to come in here a offer a rational explanation to what I know to be a common issue as I have been in contact with at least 5 people who've experienced the same thing I did. I am not new to opiates by a long shot (npi) but I am new to Opana and should've done my research before buying. I started this thread in the interest of harm reduction and saving other people some trouble if they take the time to search the forums. Thank you very much for your comments, I think this will go a long way towards alleviating some misinformation about the product.
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Hatter from a person who is in CP this worked very well. Thank you. I have a question, if this effect could happen with the other liquid you have due to the purity of it?
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I found this Wikipedia article the other day and then today, I see this thread. To my simple mind, the two seem to be describing the same thing. I offer it up with the sincerest suggestion of YMMV :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome
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That's interesting I would have never correlated serotonin syndrome with opiates...
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So ETOH Extracts Oxymorphone only out of the pill and no other Active or Inactive Ingredient? Also if you saw i said the only time i got those uncontrollable shivers chattering teeth headache sometimes nasuea.... Was not precipitated w/d or Acute withdrawal from Opiates Ive come off of smoking 50mg A day of fentanyl and i never felt like that after USING any opiate It only happened with ER i had a 8 a day 10mg shot every 2 hours habbit plus the ers. Completely different feeling and it only happens when you try to extract Oxymorphone with Isopropyl or Ethanol and putting it through a micron filter (same as any wheel filter) you just use a funnel and avacuum to do larger doses and try to increase you're extraction... You are using bacteriostatic water.... fine but let me know when you have tested purity, adulterants and so on... Id love for you too tell me even about the ingredients in Biconvex or Biconcave matrix's that don't get extracted. Its nasty shit and so was the old form. Just putting a warning out simce some people are experiencing these complications ....
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DAMN! I just came off about 36 hours of pure hell from doing 1 2mg shot of this stuff. It was NOT WD's, I can 10000000000% confirm that. It was cotton fever, but worse. The batch must have been contaminated if everyone is getting this same reaction
The hypothesis that you 'do so much you get sick' is silly as hell. I did 1 shot, and because my tolerance is so high, I didn't even feel it. But what I did feel, is the horrifying cotton fever sickness I had to deal with for days following.
I'm really happy I came across this.. I don't think I'll shoot any more of this, seems too risky. Has anyone been shooting the opana and not getting sick?
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I'd like to respond to this again since i missed it. Hatter, no it was not withdrawals. I hadn't been on any kind of opiates for a good few weeks when I took the liquid Opana. You've got to figure out why this is doing what it's doing to people
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It has been a month or two, but I ordered some of the Opana right after Hatter put it up.
I got to say, I had nothing but a pleasant experience with it. I did it all in one day, had no more of an adverse affect than a normal day of abusing opiates. It was quite enjoyable. The only reason I haven't ordered it again is because of the combined effects of being broke and preferring heroin.
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I'd like to respond to this again since i missed it. Hatter, no it was not withdrawals. I hadn't been on any kind of opiates for a good few weeks when I took the liquid Opana. You've got to figure out why this is doing what it's doing to people
Hi,
Out of the vials that I ship I would say that this has happened to less than 5% of people. There are many many reasons that this could be happening as if improper usage from the vial could contaminate the solution, if it's not completely clear then it should not be used or sometimes if someone reuses the needle and blood enters the vial it could contaminate it.
I know that when I ship it out it is sterile and safe as I use the same batch myself. Each and every batch that goes out is used by me along with all the other people that also use the same batch and I have no symptoms at all. It is also clear that the other people who used it have no issues otherwise this thread would be a lot bigger. I count about 3 people in here that have said they have any issue. That is not a lot at all.
If you ask a doctor why this is happening they will also say it is most likely a side effect from a strong opiate.
So I'm not saying that the vial could be contaminated but why is it that all the other people that use the same batch not have any issue? Why do I never have any issues? I'm very sure that if this is happening to everyone I would hear about it and certainly want to do something.
How about this, please give me some suggestion of how I would be able to fix your issue and I'll take it into consideration.
Otherwise if this is a real concern then I'll just stop selling this product, especially if you think I'm sending out "contaminated" vials. I surely don't want to poison people so I guess from now on I'm taking the IV Products off the market.
NO MORE IV OPANA or IV BTH until someone can let me know how I can offer this with out the causing any of these side effects.
Thanks!
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Hatter,
What about just offering the listing to the people who did not get sick? I was planning on buying a vial of the opana the H: I just got the BTC. However, after your last post I will wait to see what happens. No point in placing an order if you are just going to cancel it. It is clear that the people who got sick are not going to order it again. I personally never had an issue with the Opana liquid. I used a new needle every shot as to not contaminate the liquid.
What other steps can one take to make sure the vial does not become contaminated? Thanks again for the quality responses.
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I personally never had an issue with the Opana liquid. I used a new needle every shot as to not contaminate the liquid.
What other steps can one take to make sure the vial does not become contaminated? Thanks again for the quality responses.
Hello,
Thanks for the reply, you make a good point ;) using a new needle is also a good idea. I also use a new needle for every shot I do and never reuse my needles, I have a whole trash can size "bio-hazard" container and already filled one completely. Also, wipe the top of the vial before use and wipe your arm with isopropyl alcohol, etc, use safe injection techniques.
Another thing is that the liquid is not made to sit for too long, I would suggest if anyone wants to keep the vial for more than a couple weeks to refrigerate it. Also if anyone wants to be completely safe they can heat the vial slightly so that there are little bubbles (but not too much). This is made with bacteriostatic water but that doesn't mean that it still can't get contaminated although I've used contaminated liquid before and didn't get sick but got cellulitis where I shot, I never got sick after 1/2 hour or couple hours later.
I hope people speak up about this issue.
Thanks!
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Hatter,
What about just offering the listing to the people who did not get sick? I was planning on buying a vial of the opana the H: I just got the BTC. However, after your last post I will wait to see what happens. No point in placing an order if you are just going to cancel it. It is clear that the people who got sick are not going to order it again. I personally never had an issue with the Opana liquid. I used a new needle every shot as to not contaminate the liquid.
What other steps can one take to make sure the vial does not become contaminated? Thanks again for the quality responses.
I have EXTREMELY sterile procedures when shooting and trust me, I did not contaminate it. Nor would I ever re-use a needle man.. Just be careful bro!
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I'd like to respond to this again since i missed it. Hatter, no it was not withdrawals. I hadn't been on any kind of opiates for a good few weeks when I took the liquid Opana. You've got to figure out why this is doing what it's doing to people
Exactly dude.. I thought it was almost patronizing to try to blame it on WD's. Oh well, it seems we just got stuck with a contaminated batch man. No way it's coincidence..
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People are throwing the word "contaminated" around way to much here. How can you place the blame on the vendor if he is not sticking the syringe in there every time to get the liquid? Also he is not the one shooting up, you are.
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People are throwing the word "contaminated" around way to much here. How can you place the blame on the vendor if he is not sticking the syringe in there every time to get the liquid? Also he is not the one shooting up, you are.
And how could you blame me if it happened the first time I used it and every single time i used it when I cleaned off the top of the rubber stopper and used brand new syringes EVERY TIME? I've been shooting up a good while now and my procedures are clean and perfect, every single time.
It doesn't make sense to blame us when our symptoms with the same products are the exact same as well.
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People are throwing the word "contaminated" around way to much here. How can you place the blame on the vendor if he is not sticking the syringe in there every time to get the liquid? Also he is not the one shooting up, you are.
And how could you blame me if it happened the first time I used it and every single time i used it when I cleaned off the top of the rubber stopper and used brand new syringes EVERY TIME? I've been shooting up a good while now and my procedures are clean and perfect, every single time.
It doesn't make sense to blame us when our symptoms with the same products are the exact same as well.
EXACTLY! I was extremely sterile as well, as I always am.
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I have pretty sterile practices as well, in fact I used a separate drawing needle every time with it. However, I'm not fond of using the word "contaminated" either. Everyone reacts differently, but it's certainly no coincidence that the people that got sick experienced exactly the same symptoms. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I think Hatter is a responsible vendor and will continue to monitor this.
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All of these symptoms to me sound like cotton fever/a dirty hit.
The method that I know that works for shooting the new opana (the round ones, not the concave ones) are to crush the powder into the finest dust you can -- using a pedegg or a hose clamp. Make sure you shave off the outer coating first with a razor blade. Then, get the biggest most flat spoon that you have, put as much as you wanna dose on the spoon and then spread it out into a thin layer over the spoon. Light the bottom of the spoon on a stove burner, with a torch lighter or a candle, until it starts to "carmelize" or turn brown, light black is a little too much.
Make sure you have an ORAL syringe or a syringe already without the needle on it ready - you need 2 of them. With lukewarm water in them. And also you need an extra spoon, and have 2 or 3 premade cottons. Wet the cottons from the q-tips and pull them off. Once the shit gets brown, remove from the heating source and then immediately add the first syringe of the water, and then about half or so of the other syringe and stir super quick. A flash of steam is going to come up from the heat, don't worry about it. Stir it super fast and immediately drop in the wet cotton, and then instantly draw up using the oral syringe as fast as you can. Then shoot that solution back into a clean spoon, and use the other cotton and draw up as usual. It'll be an apple juice/non-cloudy, clean solution the color of a good heroin shot or beer almost. You can add a little bit of extra cool water from the second syringe if you like to cool down the shot, but it doesn't gel up or anything. I've done this for friends and seen it done many many times and I know it works, you get at least 75-85% of the dose for sure.
Trust me, this works great.
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I just want to state that Hatter's oxymorphone liquid was my first purchase on SR. Everything was perfect -- communication, shipping (which was funny), but most of all the PRODUCT. This opiate was absolutely an A+, no question there.
I had zero problems and I wrote this simply to put in my good word for Hatter.
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Well guys I have ordered both the liquid BTH and the Opana. I am going to pay close attention as to what happens at certain dose levels. I am expecting nothing short of fantastic but maybe it might shed some light on all these posts.
Thanks in advance Hatter.
P.S. Hatter upgraded my shipping to stealth, and threw in some extra goodies. I hope you are here for a while Hatter.
EDIT: Someone please report back on the new Oxycodone liquid, cant wait to get my hands on some.
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Just wanted to follow up and note that Hatter did resolve the issue with me personally and attests to his great customer service. He's a great vendor and I'm happy he was willing to speak to me about my issues and resolve them fairly.
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Hello
I can offer my support and advice regarding solutions suitable for IV.
@ hatter please pm me on the market.
I will mention just couple of points;
First and very imortant: no alcohols! Also alcohol should not be used as sterilise agent. (only by heat).
Its most likely that alcohol is a reason what causes fever. There is also sensitivity issue, some users are oversensitive to it and tracec can cause "cutton fever".(apsirin help a lot).
Dissolve pure drug in USP water for injections (buy in pharmacy).
Finshed solution must be sterilised by heat (near boiling point for min 15min).
0.2-µm membrane filter can be used instead of heating IV solution as that effecant remove bacteria, fungi and spores (it common use for heat sensitive drug solutions).
Vials and all other stuff need to be sterilised (by heat) before filling and seal.
1% of NaCl need to be present in solution.
IV solution pH need to be in the range 4-5 pH
Dry etoh can be bought in chemical supply office (pharmacy and other Etoh is usal 70-90%) Its azetrope and very hygrospcopic and its hard to make it dry. Absolute etoh is 95%.
To get rid of it, crystals extract need to be dried out completly. If any humidity is still present, it will contain and etoh traces. I would avoid etoh!
Isopropanol serve better as disinfectant then a ethanol.
Hatter is correct when say that ethanol is used in benzo IV preparation. 1ml/5mg valium ampoule has 0,1ml EtOh conent (cca 10%).
That is because benzo are not water soluble and etoh/water combo is only way for injections. But we do not know what kind of side effects such preparations causes.
Methanol can be used, its easy to make it dry (or buy it) but its very toxic and only experienced user should make extractions.
Its common to use alcohol for extractions as it evaporate fast, but even minimum amounts residue in IV solution can cause fever, nausea.
There is also drug purity issue, some polymers (hard to get rid off) are both water/alcohol soluble what can be in the end solution. (ab extraction should be made to get pure drug)
Instead, water can be used as a solvent (adjust water pH) as a extraction solvent, but prolonged evap is needed and require additional purification.
Check oxymorphone solubility in both water and in alcohol for best option.
Sterilising can be done only by autoclaving (heat) and alcohol should not be used in that purpose.
Check safe autoclave temp/time/concetration for opana(Oxymorphone) water solution to prevent decomposition.(if 0.2-µm filter is used then heating is not necessary).
p.s.
Sorry for bad english :)
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I got 5ml from Dr. Hatter on yesterday and am a little more than 1/2 way through it and have enjoyed it immensely. First shot was about .5ml and gave me a little buzz, but enough for people not to notice (did it on lunch break), then after work just a little less than 1ml and that did the trick. Nice calm warmness, euphoria, relaxation, all that good shit, then before bed another .5ml shot. Just did 1ml about 15 min ago feel great and about to head to work. I don't have a huge tolerance and generally try to to stay on anything more than 2 or 3 days before laying off for a week to avoid W/D. 1 30mg roxy up the nose is my usual if that gives you any idea of my tolerance. The old 60mg opana I would only be able to do maybe about 1/3 of it at one time. Like I said, I have nothing but awesome experiences so far and love this shit, and think Hatter is the fucking man. Don't know whats causing you guys to get sick, but its definitely not anything Hatter did with the solution. VIVA LA HATTER!